29 giugno 09, 21:50 | #13 (permalink) Top |
User Data registr.: 25-04-2007 Residenza: gruppo vst torino
Messaggi: 256
| thun elettrico,la morte silenziosa
Per coloro che mi hanno chiesto le caratteristiche tecniche del modello vincitore della gara di Fermo. Innanzi tutto una precisazione: NON SIAMO ANCORA AL LOVELLO DEGLI SCOPPIETTI!!!!!!!!!!!...............ESSENDO IL REGOLAMENTO REDATTO DAGLI STESSI....(es un'etto in piu' e' davvero troppo) Se il combat ''ha da puzza' ''e' pur vero che anche senza svenarsi ci si puo' avvicinare un po' ai livelli di un combat ''medio''. Venendo al succo ecco il frutto dello sviluppo effetuato da Oldrich (con un coniderevole dispendio energetici e monetario): Il mio modello montava uno scorpion da 1200 kv rego cinese da 40ah,eliche montate (i test si sono susseguiti anche in gara) partendo da una ''aeronaut''10x6 3 celle 4000 scendendo fino ad una APC 9x6 5000 con un'aumento si di velocita' ma arrivando fino ad una'instabilita' sempre piu' cronica (da che non ''snappava''minimamente,fino a diventare sempre piu'''ingestibile). Spero di potervi essere d'aiuto,per vedervi sempre piu numerosi alle proxxime garette,il divertimento e' sempre assicurato a prescindere dalla classifica, parola salud, max Ultima modifica di madmax1 : 29 giugno 09 alle ore 21:55 |
30 giugno 09, 08:53 | #14 (permalink) Top | |
User Data registr.: 27-10-2006 Residenza: Rovigo
Messaggi: 762
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scusa domanda ignorante... ma il regolamento del combat non dice che la somma diametro + passo deve fare max 14... (10+4 0 9+5) ? solo per capire se il regolamento é cambiato... io personalmente con lo scoppio sto provando a usare eliche con poco passo e maggiore diametro per vedere se riesco ad avere moltissimo tiro a discapito della velocitá per avere la massima manovrabilitá.... complimenti per le sperimentazioni e grazie per riportarle... é davvero un bel servizio alla comunitá... ciao e grazie
__________________ take it easy.... and W il combat | |
30 giugno 09, 09:36 | #15 (permalink) Top |
User |
regolamento aces per eletrico in breve ACES rules 2009-2010 Appendix 3.4 E-Engine short version Side 1 from 1 Version 2008-11-30 Appendix 3.4 E-Engine short version 3.1 All E-setups must be suitable for a minimum flight time of 450sec in combat. Remember that this is different from normal flight. You will consume more power when flying with a streamer and you must allow for RPM testing at the start of your heat. 3.2 All E-power systems will be limited by the maximum rpm and the pitch of the propeller. This "propstream- sum" (PSS) will help limit the maximum speed of the model. The "prop-stream-sum" is calculated by multiplying the maximum RPM by the pitch of the propeller in inches. The current limit of the PSS is set at 72000. This system of control allows for a wide variety of power systems to be used without restrictions other than those based on performance. Examples: PSS pitch max RPM, rounded 72000 7 10.300 72000 6,5 11.100 72000 6 12.000 72000 5,5 13.100 72000 5 14.400 72000 4,5 16.000 5. Replacement of IC-engines: engine class max. Wh max. prop diameter min weight max. weight .10 28 Wh 9 inch 500g 1500g .15 38 Wh 9 inch 700g 1500g .21 50 Wh 10 inch 1000g 1700g ; from 01.01.2010 on: 1500g .25 67 Wh 11 inch 1200g 1700g ; from 01.01.2010 on: 1500g normal twin 2x .10 or .15 setups 9 inch 2x see above 1700g all other multiengine A/C 67 Wh 11 inch 1200g 1700g 6. Penalties: At large events all models will be RPM tested before the heat starts. Your motor, battery and propeller must be of similar/same specifications as the time the model was booked into the contest. If you have changed your system from this you need to ask the contest director for permission to continue. Your allowed rpm and prop size needs to be documented on your score sheet (it helps the judge). 6.1 According the § 3.4.2 Engine over rpm limit Check your maximum allowed RPM. If your rpm exceeds the allowed limit by more than 100rpm you will receive a penalty for trying to compete with excessive power. Remember the max rpm figure is regulated by the pitch of your propeller. Example: 72.000 PSS divide 5 inch pitch = 14.400 RPM (max. deviation over the limit is 14.500 RPM) The RPM measuring shall be done inside 15 sec. 6.2 early landing in case of too much consumed energy No penalty is given if a forced landing was due to technical damage, streamer in the prop, collision, plane crash or any other unforeseen circumstance. If the A/C is forced to land without a technical problem due to lack of accu/battery power and if the contest judge or organiser has doubts of a correct E-setup they can appoint a technical control. (The organisation will have a specialist for this duty. He will check for excessive power consumption.) The pilot can get a penalty of 0 positive points for this round if he is found to be using too much power. These point is to discourage the E-pilots who go over the top. Rainer Handt rainer@aircombat
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30 giugno 09, 09:45 | #16 (permalink) Top |
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o questo un po piu esauriente ACES rules 2009-2010 Appendix 3.4 E-engines Side 1 from 3 Version 2008-11-30 Appendix 3.4 E-Engine 1. All classes of IC engine can be replaced with en E-engine power system. Because these have different characteristics, E-engines will have different methods of control from IC power. 2. The most important factor is to limit the accumulator/battery capacity. This makes it possible for the pilot to choose from the many different e-power systems available. 3. To ensure there is no increase in speed and power, we have set these general limitations for all E-systems 3.1 All E-setups must be suitable for a minimum flight time of 450sec in combat. Remember that this is different from normal flight. You will consume more power when flying with a streamer and you must allow for RPM testing at the start of your heat. 3.2 All E-power systems will be limited by the maximum rpm and the pitch of the propeller. This "propstream- sum" (PSS) will help limit the maximum speed of the model. The "prop-stream-sum" is calculated by multiplying the maximum RPM by the pitch of the propeller in inches. The current limit of the PSS is set at 72000. This system of control allows for a wide variety of power systems to be used without restrictions other than those based on performance. Examples: PSS pitch max RPM, rounded 72000 7 10.300 72000 6,5 11.100 72000 6 12.000 72000 5,5 13.100 72000 5 14.400 72000 4,5 16.000 4. In general terms, E-engines will not be the fastest in the field, they have better performance during start and tight turns. 5. Replacement of IC-engines: engine class max. Wh max. prop diameter min weight max. weight .10 28 Wh 9 inch 500g 1500g .15 38 Wh 9 inch 700g 1500g .21 50 Wh 10 inch 1000g 1700g ; from 01.01.2010 on: 1500g .25 67 Wh 11 inch 1200g 1700g ; from 01.01.2010 on: 1500g normal twin twice .10 or .15 setups 9 inch 2x see above 1700g all other multiengine A/C 67 Wh 11 inch 1200g 1700g 6. Penalties: At large events all models will be RPM tested before the heat starts. Your motor, battery and propeller must be of similar/same specifications as the time the model was booked into the contest. If you have changed your system from this you need to ask the contest director for permission to continue. Your allowed rpm and prop size needs to be documented on your score sheet (it helps the judge). ACES rules 2009-2010 Appendix 3.4 E-engines Side 2 from 3 Version 2008-11-30 6.1 According the § 3.4.2 Engine over rpm limit Check your maximum allowed RPM. If your rpm exceeds the allowed limit by more than 100rpm you will receive a penalty for trying to compete with excessive power. Remember the max rpm figure is regulated by the pitch of your propeller. Example: 72.000 PSS divide 5 inch pitch = 14.400 RPM (max. deviation over the limit is 14.500 RPM) The RPM measuring shall be done inside 15 sec. 6.2 early landing in case of too much consumed energy No penalty is given if a forced landing was due to technical damage, streamer in the prop, collision, plane crash or any other unforeseen circumstance. If the A/C is forced to land without a technical problem due to lack of accu/battery power and if the contest judge or organiser has doubts of a correct E-setup they can appoint a technical control. (The organisation will have a specialist for this duty. He will check for excessive power consumption.) The pilot can get a penalty of 0 positive points for this round if he is found to be using too much power. These point is to discourage the E-pilots who go over the top. 7. Example list of accu compositions In case of the very fast changing of accu cells in the international market we use the item Wh Watt*hour. Some possible accu sets: (all LiPo) most used types in rich type. Other cell types can also be used, calculate the Wh with the technical data of your cells. engine class nominal volt per cell number of cells, seriel capacity Ah, possible parallel result Wh, rounded .10 3,7 3 2,5 28 .10 3,7 4 1,8 27 .15 3,7 3 3,4 38 .15 3,7 4 2,5 37 .15 3,7 5 2 37 .21 3,7 3 4,5 50 .21 3,7 4 3,4 50 .21 3,7 5 2,7 50 .21 3,7 6 2,2 49 .25 3,7 3 6 67 .25 3,7 4 4,5 67 .25 3,7 5 3,6 67 .25 3,7 6 3 67 8. Some examples of proven E-setups: engine class remark E-engine controller prop accu producer accu cells accu capacity voltage Wh .15 class cheap class xx3536xx 30A .15 class middle class AXI 2814/12 PIX3000 Aeronaut 9x5 KOKAM 3S 3300 Ah 11,1 V 36,63 .21 class cheap class xx3542xx 40A .21 class middle class KORA 10/12 PIX4000 Aeronaut 9,5x5 SAEHAN 3s2p 2100 Ah 11,1 V 46,62 .25 class cheap class xx3548xx 40A .25 class middle class KORA 15/10 PIX4000 APCe 9x4,5 SAEHAN 4s2p 2100 Ah 14,8 V 62,16 .25 class middle class KORA 15/12 PIX4000 APCe 11x5,5 (reduc.diameter) SAEHAN 4s2p 2100 Ah 14,8 V 62,16 ACES rules 2009-2010 Appendix 3.4 E-engines Side 3 from 3 Version 2008-11-30 A picture of different accu packs. If you have questions, please send me a mail, I send you more information. rainer@aircombat.de Rainer
__________________ Chi trova errori di grammatica, se li può tenere! |
30 giugno 09, 10:11 | #17 (permalink) Top |
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vedo che comunque e meglio guardare sotto forma di tabelline, io guardo qua ACES Ceska republika - Scale Combat 1/12 - klubove stranky poi andate su pravidla 2009-2010, poi su priloha elektromotory, niente paura, il tutto in inglese
__________________ Chi trova errori di grammatica, se li può tenere! |
30 giugno 09, 13:03 | #18 (permalink) Top | |
User Data registr.: 27-10-2006 Residenza: Rovigo
Messaggi: 762
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tutto chiarissimo grazie davvero :-) ciao
__________________ take it easy.... and W il combat | |
01 luglio 09, 19:47 | #19 (permalink) Top | |
User Data registr.: 04-06-2007 Residenza: Fano
Messaggi: 814
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Ciao Svida, come è andato il ritorno a casa? Vorrei farti alcune domande sul regolamento... Nelle tabelle il passo elica minimo calcolato è 4.5 e quindi 16.000 giri questo vuol dire che eliche con minor passo non si possono usare e che 16k è il max dei giri ai terra? hai poi calcolato i consumi reali dei modelli in gara? Ciao A presto Cla Ultima modifica di Swoose : 12 novembre 12 alle ore 19:46 | |
01 luglio 09, 21:14 | #20 (permalink) Top | |
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grazie, ritorno tutto bene. Che ne so io, non è specificato nessun limite minimo per passo, in effetti avevo provato una 9x3,8 su 4s e 1220kv prima della gara, ma l'avevo scartato perchè modello era mal centrato... In gara abbiamo usato due motori diversi, Max il 1220kv su 3s e 10x6aeronaut circa 3800mAh, tgSport10x6 4000mAh, poi la 9x6apc, qua ho pasticciato un pò durante la ricarica ma sara intorno a 3300mAh.Io poi con la aeronaut 9,5x5consumavo 3100-3200 su 4s e 1040kv.Tratto le esperienze dalla gara la propulsione si puo sicuramente ancora ottimizzare molto ciao Oldrich P.S. Svida è mio cognome
__________________ Chi trova errori di grammatica, se li può tenere! | |
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